Talk:Islamic bigotry

explanation for edits

I can explain why I eliminated Postali's entries.

One doesn't need to compound the climate of prejudice against Muslims by adding lists of purported cases of "bigotry". But what is certain is that there is a well-funded campaign meant to smear / demonize Muslims . It hires the likes of Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, Brigitte Gabriel, Walid Shoebat, Frank Gaffney, Danile Pipes, etc. Now, it would be useful to uncover this sinister plan, and attempt to undermine it so that we can have the prospect of a saner world. Now, instead of uncovering this smearing campaign and the propaganda surrounding it, what Postali did was list "examples" of purported bigotry. And Postali used sources provenant from the very operators who are intent on poisoning our civil society, e.g., Postali added articles by Robert Spencer for instance. And Postali added a silly uninformed article in Insight magazine. And Postali seriously misrepresent the reasons for conflict in Sudan (Mahmoud Mamdani has written a book about the causes, and they certainly aren't as simplistic as those added to this article).

Should there be space in SW to have an article about Jewish bigotry/fascism? If no, then why an article that maligns 1.5 billion people? One would hope that SourceWatch should concentrate on exposing nasty propaganda instead of compounding it. Given the sources used by Postali, his contributions can only be seen as the latter.

References

--Antidotto 08:36, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Unexplianed bias / censorship / distortion of facts

Regarding your biased vandalism - removal of large data at [1]

• Why do you lump Robert Spencer (BTW What Robert Spencer article are you referring to, suppsoedly I have added) with Frank Gaffney? I never saw F. Gaffney criticising ALL Islam.

• Did you read the CLEAR difference I make, already in the beginning, between radicals and moderates?

• Not sure what you found wrong in the Insight magazine.

• Why did you remove all the articles (not by the authors you dislike) from:

- 1895 - 1924 (By an Islamic Magazine) - 1967 - 1971 - 1979 - 1985 - 2002 - 2004 - 2008

• Sudan genocide ("conflict") was already cdescribed as motivated by bigotry since the early 1990s

The Weekly review, (Stellascope Ltd., 1993), p. 44

The Weekly Review, May 28, 1993

Africa
[...] Africa Khartoum have changed the status quo with the present one having imposed the contentious sharia as the law of the land. The rebels content that these policies have resulted in the severe discrimination of the non-Muslim and non-Arab segments of the population in economic, political and social spheres — a form of "religious apartheid."
[...] uncompromisingly to such an extent that the southern Sudanese and international human rights groups charge that the government is prepared to wipe out any of southern Sudan's more than 8 million non-Muslims who refuse to' convert. One tactic, according to western diplomats, is the export of food surpluses harvested in the north to other Muslim countries while the south continues to starve. The United Nations World Food Programme estimates that 800000 Sudanese face..

link

• The (CAIR type) pseudo notion that criticisng Islamic bigotry is "anti-Islam," smells of censorship. Not of objectivity.

• I did not elaborate on the smearing campaign - dehumanization of ALL Jews as "apes and pigs."

• Christian bigotry or Zionists' are irrelevant to this subject. There are no regimes that are clearly officially [acting] "Christian" even those that have a cross on their flag, (Israel is a secular State, its laws are based on Ottoman period and British Mandate) Not to mention the actuality - most violence around the globe [!!!] which is not detached from bigotry.

Point

With all due respect, you are missing the point. This is not about your/mine POV, but about how/where the term 'Islamic bigotry' has been used since the 1800s. As to the ICC charging al-Bashir for crimes of genocide, you dispute it? Or G. Clooney's (and others) figure of 2,500,000 is not "suffice" to reach 'genocide' leve?

Again, it was not I who entered Robert Spencer's article in the page. And there's no data from P. Geller in there.

"Spencer" what? and who's your "source" 'Shakir'?

What do all the following have to with the "spencer"???

---

Already used, at least as early as the 1800s. The term "Muslim bigotry," was used in 1888 publications, discussing the subjucation of the "People of the Book," Christians, Jews, and Sabeans, also known as "dhimmis" (Zimmis). The official humiliation and "apartheid" like of non-Muslims (such as, under the Ottoman Empire).The living age ...: Volume 177, p. 394, Eliakim Littell, Robert S. Littell, Making of America Project (Littell, son & company, 1888) [2] [3]The Eclectic magazine of foreign literature, science, and art: Volume 110, p. 843 (Leavitt, Trow, & Co., 1888) [4] [5]

In 1895, 'Islamic bigotry' was used to describe the 1453 Turkish-Islamic massacre of Christians.The Art journal, pp. 77-78, (Virtue and Co., 1895) [6].

In 1924, an Islamic magazine defined it to differentiate it from moderate Islam.The Islamic review: Volume 12; Volume 12, Khwajah Kamal al-Din, Khwajah Kamal al-Din (1924), p. 412 [7]

It was used (in a 1967 book) vis-a-vis Pakistani Islamic motivated bigotry against the Ahmadiya, since, at least 1953."India and Pakistan: a political analysis," p. 120 (1967) [8] 1976 author, on pan-Islamic bigotry that the Khilafat had generated.Bankey Bihari Misra, "The Indian political parties: an historical analysis of political behaviour up to 1947‎," p. 191, (Political Science - Oxford University Press, 1976) [9] In 1971 on anti-Indian Islamic bigotry.C. K. Kareem, "What happened in Indian history," p. 98 (1971) [10] In a 1979 book on Iran, on anti-Bahai bigotry.Richard W. Cottam , "Nationalism in Iran: updated through 1978, " p. 357 (University of Pittsburgh Pre, 1979) [11] In 1981, in the (Asian) Tribune on the motive of Islamists' assassinating Egyptian President A. Sadat.Tribune, Volume 26, Issues 1-16, p. 24, (Ceylon News Service, 1981) [12] In 1985, by The New York Times, on Sudan's punishing of a compassionate official who aided Ethiopian Jews to be airlifed to Israel.New York Times, Topics - Outcasts The Crime of Mercy - Editorial, Jun 12, 1985, The new military rulers of the Sudan apparently consider compassion a crime. They have jailed and are now trying the country's former Vice President, Omar Mohammed el-Tayeb, for aiding the airlift to Israel of some 10,000 Ethiopian Jews from Sudanese refugee camps. He is seemingly the scapegoat to be sacrificed to Islamic bigotry. [13]"The Crime Of Mercy," Sarasota Herald-Tribune, Jun 15, 1985 [14] In 1988 on Pakistani officers meeting with Assam- based organisations of Islamic bigotry.Edatata Narayanan, Link;: Indian newsmagazine, Volume 30‎, p. 12, (United India Periodicals., 1988) [15] In 1996,Gandhi marg, Volume 18‎, p. 413, Gandhi Peace Foundation (New Delhi, India, History, 1996) [16] and 1997, on Islamic bigotry being against "progressive movement of history."Ali Mohammadi, "International communication and globalization: a critical introduction," p. 127, (SAGE, 1997) [17] In 1998 author used the term on Pakistan's intolerance.Rajeshwar Dayal, "A life of our times, " p. 321 (Orient Blackswan, 1998) [18] In 2000, regarding Muslim invaders' massacre of Buddhists.S. N. Sadasivan, "A social history of India," p. 589, (APH Publishing, 2000, 799 pp.) [19] In 2002, India accused Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) of terrorism in Kashmir and expanding Islamic bigotry.The Middle East: Abstracts and index: Volume 5; Volume 5, p. 293 (Library Information and Research Service, Library Information and Research Service, 2002) [20] In 2002, on the "revival" of Islamic bigotry.Anthony Crothers Milner, "The invention of politics in colonial Malaya," p. 154 (Cambridge University Press, 2002) [21] In a 2002 book on Pakistan anti-Christian rampage, Afghanistan and Indonesia.Adedapo Adeniran, "Nigeria: the case for peaceful and friendly dissolution," (The Futility of the Land Use, 2002) [22] In a 2003 book by Ahamkaari, in general on Muslim societies and intolerance.Ahamkaari, "Will I Be Killed: For Writing the Following Contents," p. 7 (iUniverse, 2003) [23] In a 2005 book, on various Islamic entities.Tony Axon, Sue Hewitt, "Asia and Pacific Report 2005: The Economic and Business Report," p. 38 (Knowledge Books & Software, 2005) [24] In a 2010 book on Iran.Hugh Hope, "Dining with al-Qaeda: three decades exploring the many worlds of the Middle East," p. 82 (Macmillan, 2010) [25]

In 2003, the Boston Globe wrote: "Rousing Muslim bigotry," on anti-Semitism in the Muslim world and by noted Muslim figures, with the complicity of CAIR. Rousing Muslim bigotry - Boston.com, by Jeff Jacoby, 10/23/2003 [26]

In 2004 Insight Magazine wrote [27] on Osama Bin Laden's doctrine: "Islamic bigotry toward non-Muslims" "Islamic bigotry toward non-Muslims: pundits proclaim that Osama bin Laden's fanatical followers do not practice `true' Islam. But what exactly is the difference between `moderate' and `militant'?". Insight on the News / Feb 4, 2002 [28]

The Daily Telegraph in August 2008 published an article titled: "Islamic bigotry is still bigotry" regarding the famous undercover Mosque documentary on UK's TV Channel 4 that revealed in 2007 shocking bigotry preached by mainstream mosques in the UK against non-Muslims."Islamic bigotry is still bigotry," Telegraph, 31 Aug 2008 [29]

An article appeared in (2009) The Hamilton Spectator: "Islamic bigotry is a threat to Canada," on the glorification of jihad and Islamic terrorism being "the ultimate form of bigotry." TheSpec - Islamic bigotry is a threat to CanadaThe Hamilton Spectator, Dec 12, 2009 [30]

-- And another point. What makes your ref. from somebody by the name F. Shakir more "reliable"?

Distortion / Demonizing all who have legitimate concern about Islamic bigotry?

You falsely stated that Spencer and Geller invented the terminology... As you can see, Islamic Review (1924) which was an Islamic periodical came up as well with that exact term. And all those examples hereafter, are just as proof.

You are -unjustifiably- lumping Spencer and Geller with everyone that criticizes Islamic bigotry. Isn't this demonmization in and of itself, again, a form of intolerance, proving the point.

I have no clue how or why you have added the word "fascism" and/or Islamofascism. not all bigotry is already "fascist." Even if your Mr. Shakir would be reliable... I can't see naything about the subject "Islamic bigotry" in there. Hence, you are distorting, again.

Postali 15:58, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Regards, Postali 13:35, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

hardly the place

Postali, SW is hardly the place for this "documentation" of "Islamic bigotry". Try one of the websites of David Horowitz or Daniel Pipes, they love that stuff. What you write is hardly edifying. --Antidotto 16:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Still spinning, still avoiding

Still giving me Pipes (Did he ever talk about Islamic bigotry? Can you quote him using 'Islamic bigotry' please?) and others which I did NOT link here. And why did you mention Geller at all? If this is not classic spin. What is? Not sure the obsession with those three or four guys has to do with ISLAMIC BIGOTRY, termed in the 1800s (which you deleted) by Christians and Muslims. Remember, censorship, creates more energy...

Islamic bigotry is NOT necessarily -always- "fascism"

Please explain how you were justified in lumping Islamic bigotry with Christopher Hitchen's "Islamofascism"? [Hitchens mainly adopted Islamofascism, before G.W. Bush who used it in 2006]Postali 16:41, 28 October 2011 (UTC)