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| − | This article was censored from [[Wikipedia]], similarly to [[Bush Knew]], at about the same time, by the same zealous defenders of [[neutral point of view]]. Exact quotes from the [[w:Talk:Bush League|"Talk file"]] discussion, where a single issue of a disputed fact (who the [[Taliban]] met) becomes an excuse for a broader challenge beginning with an appeal to the all-powerful [[NPOV]]:
| + | The '''Bush League''' or '''Bush Buddies''' or '''Texas Taliban''' are names used by opponents of President [[George Walker Bush]] (GWB). |
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| + | It refers to the [[Bush Dynasty|Bush family dynasty]] including: |
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| − | ::Don't attribute bias to those of us who want to keep Wikipedia NPOV. -- [[User:Zoe|Zoe]]
| + | *[[Jeb Bush]] Florida Governor |
| | + | *[[Neil Mallon Bush]]; |
| | + | *[[George Herbert Walker Bush]] |
| | + | *[[Prescott Sheldon Bush]] |
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| − | :::You don't know what NPOV is, and you certainly can't apply it to controversial material. The correct test is "is this article useful to either side of the debate?" - and in its original form, the article as written isn't.
| + | == Other Related SourceWatch Resources == |
| | + | *[[Bush administration]] |
| | + | *[[Bush Dynasty]] |
| | + | *[[Bush regime]] |
| | + | *[[Dubya Dubya Three]] |
| | + | *[[October Surprise]] |
| | + | *[[Patrick Henry College]] |
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| − | ::I am simply asking you to provide substantial documentation and references for the ''very contentious'' claims you have made. I have already pointed out several errors of fact in your article, for example: that Bush had anything to do with the Taleban coming to Texas in '97. In fact, the Taleban met with Bridas and Unocal representatives, NOT the Bush family or companies.
| + | == External links == |
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| − | ::: This is the ONLY correction you have made, and it's accepted. That should say 'reputed' as well. But the common investment interests with the bin Laden family, and strong Osama-Taliban links, makes this another strong circumstantial link. | + | *[http://www.bushwatch.com/ www.BushWatch.com]. |
| − | | + | *[http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/articlesbush.html Articles Related to the Bush Family]. |
| − | :: I suggest that you go read ''Taliban'' by Ahmed Rashid. Your statement that evidence of conspiracy is easy to find unfortunately doesn't qualify as evidence itself. Only irrefutable proof counts.
| + | *[http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/bush.html Imperial Bush Archives] -- The Consortium for Independent Journalism |
| − | | + | *[http://bush-league.blogspot.com/ Bush League weblog - tracking hypocrisy and malfeasance in the corporate White House]. |
| − | :::If I wished to provide 'irrefutable proof' on matters of history, I'd be wasting my time talking to AxelBoldt, who also applies such irrational and censorious standards.
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| − | :: Put up or shut up. Let's see links to magazine articles from respectable publications which document substantial connections of Bush to the events you brought up. [[User:Chadloder|Chadloder]] 03:40 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)
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| − | ::: Easily found with any web search. I'm out of time here. Goodbye.
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| − | Remember many Wiki sites use CIA factbooks (though if these 'facts' are in any way indicating the level of CIA 'knowledge' God help America! I've spent ages correcting basic 'facts' that are garbage!). Does the fact that Wiki uses CIA stuff (and I for one wished it didn't. Can we ban it?) does that make Wiki by extension linked to the nazis? I have no time for Bush or baby Bush now in the White House, but linking him to nazis is going too far. It is paranoia gone mad! Even ''if'' grandad Bush had such links, that is no evidence to be levelled against later Bushs.
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| − | :That is not the logic about family values that applies in most of the world.
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| − | Whatever value there was in the original article is completely lost by over the top claims, dodgy links and a blatent agenda. NPOV offers facts, not agenda-led propaganda, which invariably backfires, as this article clearly does. [[User:Jtdirl|JTD]] 03:42 Jan 26, 2003 (UTC)
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| − | :Backfires against what? The article is not useful to Bush proponents nor opponents in its original form, which is the closest to NPOV one can hope for. It had exactly one flaw, that being the accusation of a proven lnk between Bush and the Taliban. However, it didn't bother to make the point that the G. W. Bush administration was sending money to the Taliban 'to eradicate poppies'.
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| − | A True NPOV article is one that is useful to neither side of the given debate.
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| − | Remove all the facts that make the story hang together, and the list shortly looks like an accusation, rather than an observation, of the associations of the persons involved. Which were BTW voluntary - no one has to deal with such people - and yes *some* of the individuals involved clearly have violent natures, e.g. [[Saddam Hussein]]
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| − | Note calls for "irrefutable proof" - clearly [[raising standard of evidence]].
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| − | Also note odd calls to make the article "useful" to one side or the other - of course if it did either side would call it "not neutral" - [[crazy-making]].
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| − | The '''Bush League''' or '''Bush Buddies''' or '''Texas Taliban''' is a name used by opponents of President [[George W. Bush]] to emphasize his family's long history of association with unscrupulous foreign dictators including [[Nazis]], the oil industry, the [[CIA]] and corporate executives linked to any of these.
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| − | It refers simultaneously to the Bush family (including Florida Governor [[Jeb Bush]], their brother [[Neil Bush]], father [[George Bush Sr.]], and grandfather [[Prescott Bush]]) and a [[baseball]] "bush league" - rank amateurs unfit to play in the [[major league baseball|major leagues]]. It also exploits resonance with the phrase "[[in league with the Devil]]", and the meaning of "league" as a [[conspiracy]] or [[secret society]].
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| − | Note: the oil industry is so central to world politics, and the CIA involved in so many global intrigues during the [[Cold War]], that it is necessary to note that anyone involved in US foreign policy or Mideast oil might appear to have a long history of questionable associations.
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| − | Accordingly this characterization may appear unduly damning. Even to list those purported to be involved may be inflammatory - the use of the term "League" is intended to deliberately trigger such suspicions. The wikipedia does not intend to imply connections other than those admitted by the individuals involved, and will refer to accusations as "reputed":
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| − | *[[Prescott Bush]] had businesses confiscated during [[World War II]] for dealing useful war materiel to [[Nazi Germany]] - and was investigated for treason.
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| − | *[[George Bush Sr.]] was head of the [[Central Intelligence Agency]] in [[1976]]-[[1977|77]], an agency reputed to still include at that time [[Cold War]] era operatives recruited from the Nazis in order to oppose the [[Soviet Union]] - in which the Nazis had an extensive spy network. | |
| − | *[[Ayatollah Khomeini]], who [[Republican Party]] operatives dealt with to establish the [[Iran-Contra]] dealings and [[October Surprise]], on behalf of U.S. Presidential candidate [[Ronald Reagan]].
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| − | *[[Oliver North]], who admitted arranging the deal on his own account, lying to the [[US Congress]] and later ran for Senator from Virginia on the Republican ticket.
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| − | *Reagan himself, who was first opposed by Bush Sr. (who called his program "voodoo economics") but then named him his Vice-Presidential candidate in [[1980]], triggering suspicions that Bush had proven his usefulness in some way.
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| − | *[[William Casey]], head of the CIA under Reagan, a secretive man who flew all over the world and had many meetings with the USSR's opponents including:
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| − | *[[John Paul II]], who played a key role in the fall of the [[Warsaw Pact]] nations and the [[USSR]].
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| − | *[[Saddam Hussein]], who was provided with weapons and funding during the [[First Gulf War]] between [[Iran]] and [[Iraq]] in the 1980s, during the [[Reagan administration]], and was at that time considered a US ally.
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| − | *[[Osama bin Laden]], then a minor [[Mujahedeen]] leader in [[Afghanistan]], who is reputed to have been a CIA agent there, and certainly exploited the CIA resources and US-funded propaganda sent to bolster the morale of [[radical Islamist]]s after the [[Soviet invasion of Afghanistan]].
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| − | *[[Richard Cheney]], Bush Sr.'s Defense Secretary, and Bush Jr's. Vice-President, former President of [[Halliburton Company]], involved in several oil development projects in Mideast countries.
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| − | *The [[Carlyle Group]], an investment group including members of both the [[Bush family]] and [[bin Laden family]] (one of the richest in [[Saudi Arabia]] and a major player in construction).
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| − | *[[Afghanistan]] [[Taliban]] figures who came to Texas to discuss an oil pipeline in [[1997]].
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| − | With such figures documented to have had military and economic dealings in the past, it is quite difficult to refute any claims of a conspiracy.
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| − | In particular, given the secret nature of their prior dealings, and the proven violent capacities of most of the individuals, it is quite clear that the capacity to plan almost any heinous act, and carry it out in secret, exists in this group. This would include acts of [[treason]], [[terrorism]] and [[assassination]], well-documented as taking place as part of [[CIA covert operation]]s, particularly before [[1976]] when such actions were banned by US Presidential order, necessitating the use of proxies for such actions.
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| − | The variety and nature of the claims of conspiracy made against the above figures makes it difficult or impossible to discuss them in the context of a neutral encyclopedia article, without appearing to give them credence. As noted above, even the implication of association seems to be damning. However, this article reports only well known associations and circumstantial accusations that have never been clearly refuted by the individuals involved.
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| − | Only one conspiracy claim has been widely discussed in the press, that being that "Bush knew" about the [[September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack]] and may have been involved in planning them directly. The [[New York Post]] and Georgia Representative [[Cynthia McKinney]] have both called for a full investigation of the ties of the Bush family to the various figures involved, and those who stand to benefit from the U.S. control of Afghanistan and Iraq, both major oil producing basins.
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| − | See also: [[Dubya Dubya Three]], [[October Surprise]]
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